jmgregory1
Mar 22, 01:16 PM
+1
'lets make a tablet for our business users, to get serious workloads done. we can call it the playbook'.
i didn't know charlie sheen was in charge of their team?
If you watch and listen to Rim's co-leaders, you see the resemblance to Charlie Sheen. I'm all for company's fluffing their feathers and believing in the products they market and sell, but these guys come off as being sooo Charlie Sheen. Their grasp of reality is lacking to the point of making them sound ridiculous. I'm surprised investors don't punish them more for this - but of course many Wall Streeters still use BB's, so it makes sense.
Change is tough for lots of people and companies - which keeps Rim going and will at the same time be the death of them.
'lets make a tablet for our business users, to get serious workloads done. we can call it the playbook'.
i didn't know charlie sheen was in charge of their team?
If you watch and listen to Rim's co-leaders, you see the resemblance to Charlie Sheen. I'm all for company's fluffing their feathers and believing in the products they market and sell, but these guys come off as being sooo Charlie Sheen. Their grasp of reality is lacking to the point of making them sound ridiculous. I'm surprised investors don't punish them more for this - but of course many Wall Streeters still use BB's, so it makes sense.
Change is tough for lots of people and companies - which keeps Rim going and will at the same time be the death of them.
Moyank24
Mar 3, 10:28 PM
Being gay is not a sin, homosexual actions are a sin.
Eh...this is so 2000 years ago...
Luckily most of us that live in this century know better.
Eh...this is so 2000 years ago...
Luckily most of us that live in this century know better.
bibbz
Jun 14, 06:02 PM
@NJRonbo...
Reservations with a pin attached DO guarantee you a phone on launch day. This is how our DC knows how many to send. Otherwise there would be no point in doing a reservation. Basically if a store takes 20 reservations, they will get 20 phones plus a few extra based on how many reservations they took. If a store tells you the reservation will not guarantee you a phone, go to a diff RS bc that store doest know what theya re talking about.
:apple: says we cannot call it a "pre-order" and we cannot take money for the iPhone 4 before launch day!
Reservations with a pin attached DO guarantee you a phone on launch day. This is how our DC knows how many to send. Otherwise there would be no point in doing a reservation. Basically if a store takes 20 reservations, they will get 20 phones plus a few extra based on how many reservations they took. If a store tells you the reservation will not guarantee you a phone, go to a diff RS bc that store doest know what theya re talking about.
:apple: says we cannot call it a "pre-order" and we cannot take money for the iPhone 4 before launch day!
ImNoSuperMan
Jul 27, 10:33 AM
T minus 11 days...............
Cant wait.
Cant wait.
DavidLeblond
Jul 27, 11:24 AM
Considering some of the rumors I'm thinking all the marbles would be:
MacPro
MBP, MB, iMac, Mini processor update
Leopard Preview
iTunes Movie Store
Larger capacity nanos
True Video iPod
So, you're right. Not a chance we're getting all of that (one can only dream).
MacPro
MBP, iMac processor update
Leopard Preview
I think those are the most likely marbles.
MacPro
MBP, MB, iMac, Mini processor update
Leopard Preview
iTunes Movie Store
Larger capacity nanos
True Video iPod
So, you're right. Not a chance we're getting all of that (one can only dream).
MacPro
MBP, iMac processor update
Leopard Preview
I think those are the most likely marbles.
Backup15andpunt
Nov 29, 01:34 AM
Here an idea. Have Apple buy Universal. Then Microsoft and pay Apple for every Zune it sells. Of course the government might frown on this kind of purchase.
peterdevries
Apr 20, 08:50 AM
Samsung didn't stole it from Apple since they were first with the design, end of story.
Samsung can claim Apple stole their design and patent it. That's fraud right since it's not their own idea?
Read my post properly. If one company doesn't patent the idea, than other companies can copy it without consequence. If Samsung was indeed first (and I'm not challenging that they were, I don't know), than they are stupid that they didn't patent it.
I'm sure Samsung sues many other companies that infringe on their patents.
I really don't understand what all this fuss is about. People need to see that this is normal business practice (whatever your opinion of it may be is totally besides the point).
Samsung can claim Apple stole their design and patent it. That's fraud right since it's not their own idea?
Read my post properly. If one company doesn't patent the idea, than other companies can copy it without consequence. If Samsung was indeed first (and I'm not challenging that they were, I don't know), than they are stupid that they didn't patent it.
I'm sure Samsung sues many other companies that infringe on their patents.
I really don't understand what all this fuss is about. People need to see that this is normal business practice (whatever your opinion of it may be is totally besides the point).
chicagdan
Aug 6, 08:33 AM
What would I like to see at WWDC? For Jobs to say "we've taken a hard look at the labor practices of our Shanghai facility and what's happened to quality control since we started manufacturing our products in China and decided that enough is enough. We're moving our manufacturing to a variety of locales on the Pacific Rim -- mostly Taiwan and Malaysia -- and increasing prices 10 percent across the board to reflect the higher costs. We're sorry about the price hike, but Apple isn't Apple when it encourages slave labor and creates beautiful products that consistently fall apart."
bibbz
Jun 9, 05:04 PM
I would not ever go to a Best Buy myself and purchase a Cell Phone. They have no incentive to sell you anything really. An AT&T Store would be a better choice if you have no Apple Stores local. Best Buy and Wal-Mart would be my last option hands down. I would rather go somewhere that the employee makes commission and has more of a reason to serve and help you with your purchase than someone that is being paid hourly to be there. Apple Store is an exception here.
Absolutely true. We pay our guys well to sell you phones so they WANT your business and will help you 100% to gain it. Walmart and best buy are hourly employees and are just there.
That's "THE SHACK" to you sir! Sorry, I still can't over this crappy, crappy branding decision of theirs to call themselves "The Shack." Really?
When I watched basketball performances, it was from "The Shack." When I was 12, I had my porno hidden in "The Shack." And when I was 15 and in the Boy Scouts and I went camping/boating, I took a crap in "The Shack." But, when I was 16 and built a home-made rocket, I got my parts from "RADIO SHACK."
I agree with you, I am glad I quit Radio Shack before they transitioned to all this new stuff. The reason I see they are re-branding is because they no longer are in the Radio business and want to move along with the Technology and keep up. The parts they were known for selling when they started is just not a high demand market and is hard to target.
This is directed at both quotes above...
We are not changing our name to "The Shack". The company name is RadioShack and will remain RadioShack for now.
"The Shack is a nickname that almost all employees call it. If im at home and left something at work i would say: "Damn, i left my hat up at the shack. Oh well, ill get it tomorrow." I cannot remember the last time i said "RadioShack" I have been an employee for 4 1/2 years and a store manager for 2 1/2. This is just what we as employees call the place.
The advertising behind the shack is an effort to show and share that nickname that we have for RadioShack with the world. It's something that i am very happy to have embraced and shared with everyone.
Went down to Radio Shack today. They are doing a trade in but you're never gonna get the max price they offer unless it's out of the box new. My 3gs has normal wear over the year so they will only give 230 for it.
And I have a feeling trading in prices will drop when the iPhone 4 drops.
I have said numerous times in this thread that i wouldn't be surprised if the prices went down with the launch of the iPhone 4. Obviously i cant say whether it will or not bc i don't make that decision, but in simple business, it makes sense.
Absolutely true. We pay our guys well to sell you phones so they WANT your business and will help you 100% to gain it. Walmart and best buy are hourly employees and are just there.
That's "THE SHACK" to you sir! Sorry, I still can't over this crappy, crappy branding decision of theirs to call themselves "The Shack." Really?
When I watched basketball performances, it was from "The Shack." When I was 12, I had my porno hidden in "The Shack." And when I was 15 and in the Boy Scouts and I went camping/boating, I took a crap in "The Shack." But, when I was 16 and built a home-made rocket, I got my parts from "RADIO SHACK."
I agree with you, I am glad I quit Radio Shack before they transitioned to all this new stuff. The reason I see they are re-branding is because they no longer are in the Radio business and want to move along with the Technology and keep up. The parts they were known for selling when they started is just not a high demand market and is hard to target.
This is directed at both quotes above...
We are not changing our name to "The Shack". The company name is RadioShack and will remain RadioShack for now.
"The Shack is a nickname that almost all employees call it. If im at home and left something at work i would say: "Damn, i left my hat up at the shack. Oh well, ill get it tomorrow." I cannot remember the last time i said "RadioShack" I have been an employee for 4 1/2 years and a store manager for 2 1/2. This is just what we as employees call the place.
The advertising behind the shack is an effort to show and share that nickname that we have for RadioShack with the world. It's something that i am very happy to have embraced and shared with everyone.
Went down to Radio Shack today. They are doing a trade in but you're never gonna get the max price they offer unless it's out of the box new. My 3gs has normal wear over the year so they will only give 230 for it.
And I have a feeling trading in prices will drop when the iPhone 4 drops.
I have said numerous times in this thread that i wouldn't be surprised if the prices went down with the launch of the iPhone 4. Obviously i cant say whether it will or not bc i don't make that decision, but in simple business, it makes sense.
Macsavvytech
Apr 6, 02:01 AM
Ugh. Final Cut is fine the way it is for now... We need iWeb overhaul!! Make it more search engine friendly, none of the text as an image crap. grrr...
No Real web designer uses iWeb...
Tried it for 5 minutes until i realised how closed up it is, ie no code view.
Not that i really need any graphic program anyway. TextWrangler and Notepad++ FTW!
No Real web designer uses iWeb...
Tried it for 5 minutes until i realised how closed up it is, ie no code view.
Not that i really need any graphic program anyway. TextWrangler and Notepad++ FTW!
shamino
Jul 22, 12:18 PM
So I read in this thread that Kentsfield and Clovertown ARE compatible with Conroe and Woodcrest sockets (respectively) (Cloverton or Clovertown?)
Well, people here have mentioned it. I haven't seen any sources for these claims, however.
It's worth noting that the Pentium 4 shipped in several different socket packages over the years. The fact that the cores might be electrically compatible does not necessarily mean you're going to be able to perform a chip-swap upgrade on your Mac!
Hope for upgrading an iMac to Quad Core is kindled! At least if Apple releases Conroe iMacs.
And assuming they don't solder the chip to the motherboard, or hardwire the clock-multiplier chips, or hard-wire the voltage regulator settings, etc.
There are a lot of things that can be done to a motherboard to make these kinds of upgrades painful or even impossible.
With any kind of rumor like this, "I'll believe it when I see it" should be your mantra. Sure, these kinds of upgrades would be great, and it may even be possible to perform them on generic PC motherbaords, but this doesn't necessarily mean it will be easy or even possible on the systems Apple ends up shipping.
BTW, In my opinion, one thing a person should never, ever say is some computer has too much power, and that it will never be needed.
"Never" is always too strong a word. But there are plenty of good reasons to say "useless for today's applications" or "not worth the cost".
When applications start demanding more, and when costs come down, then the equations change. As they always do.
When we will be able to download our entire lives, and even conciousness into a computer, as is said to happen in about 40 years (very much looking forward to)...
You're looking forward to this? Let's hope for your sake that Microsoft has nothing to do with the system software.
I don't think it will be possible, even in 40 years, despite what sci-fi authors are predicting. And there's no way I'd ever have such a system installed even if it would be come possible. The possibility of dying or becoming comatose, or even worse, as a result of a software glitch is something I'm not going to allow. To quote McCoy from Star Trek: "Let's see how it scrambles your molecules first."
So as a conclusion to my most recent rant, Please, never tell me a computer is too powerfu, has too many cores, or has too much storage capacity. If it is there to be used, it will be used. It always is.
But do you want to be the first person to have to pay for it?
Well, people here have mentioned it. I haven't seen any sources for these claims, however.
It's worth noting that the Pentium 4 shipped in several different socket packages over the years. The fact that the cores might be electrically compatible does not necessarily mean you're going to be able to perform a chip-swap upgrade on your Mac!
Hope for upgrading an iMac to Quad Core is kindled! At least if Apple releases Conroe iMacs.
And assuming they don't solder the chip to the motherboard, or hardwire the clock-multiplier chips, or hard-wire the voltage regulator settings, etc.
There are a lot of things that can be done to a motherboard to make these kinds of upgrades painful or even impossible.
With any kind of rumor like this, "I'll believe it when I see it" should be your mantra. Sure, these kinds of upgrades would be great, and it may even be possible to perform them on generic PC motherbaords, but this doesn't necessarily mean it will be easy or even possible on the systems Apple ends up shipping.
BTW, In my opinion, one thing a person should never, ever say is some computer has too much power, and that it will never be needed.
"Never" is always too strong a word. But there are plenty of good reasons to say "useless for today's applications" or "not worth the cost".
When applications start demanding more, and when costs come down, then the equations change. As they always do.
When we will be able to download our entire lives, and even conciousness into a computer, as is said to happen in about 40 years (very much looking forward to)...
You're looking forward to this? Let's hope for your sake that Microsoft has nothing to do with the system software.
I don't think it will be possible, even in 40 years, despite what sci-fi authors are predicting. And there's no way I'd ever have such a system installed even if it would be come possible. The possibility of dying or becoming comatose, or even worse, as a result of a software glitch is something I'm not going to allow. To quote McCoy from Star Trek: "Let's see how it scrambles your molecules first."
So as a conclusion to my most recent rant, Please, never tell me a computer is too powerfu, has too many cores, or has too much storage capacity. If it is there to be used, it will be used. It always is.
But do you want to be the first person to have to pay for it?
Scottsdale
Apr 6, 11:31 AM
I'm pretty sure you are aware that Apple would use LV CPU in 13", not ULV. That bumps us to 2.3GHz plus Turbo. You have said this yourself too and I already covered the reason in my other post.
This is just a MR article and surprisingly, they don't have much idea about the TDPs. Hopefully they will correct their article so people won't live in confusion.
That isn't what this story reads, and I don't think anyone but you and I have even read the actual facts supposed here.
I actually find this one of the least accurate stories ever posted on MacRumors.com for several reasons... the OP is assuming ULV in the 13" MBA. The OP is assuming that if SB IGP is good enough for MBP it's fine for MBA. There is no rumor or timeframe listing these chips especially not in the 13" MBA. It seems like it's a blatant attempt to stir up activity without any real facts, rumors, or even common knowledge about the chips used in the MBAs.
Certainly the people haven't read the story or they're somehow focusing on the 11" MBA. Sure, this would be fine for the 11" MBA in terms of CPU clock speed but even then it's a gigantic loss in the graphics capabilities. That leads to a problem with the author saying good enough for 13" MBP than good enough for MBA. However, the IGP clock speed used in this ULV chip will be nearly a 50% drop in graphics performance. That for me doesn't equate to if this then that...
I am disappointed with MR for even writing such a poor piece of garbage. Forget that I cannot stand the SB IGP... the assumptions made here are absurd! It
definitely doesn't warrant this sort of reply from the fans of the MBA. You and I
could assume things all day, but that isn't the story written.
This is just a MR article and surprisingly, they don't have much idea about the TDPs. Hopefully they will correct their article so people won't live in confusion.
That isn't what this story reads, and I don't think anyone but you and I have even read the actual facts supposed here.
I actually find this one of the least accurate stories ever posted on MacRumors.com for several reasons... the OP is assuming ULV in the 13" MBA. The OP is assuming that if SB IGP is good enough for MBP it's fine for MBA. There is no rumor or timeframe listing these chips especially not in the 13" MBA. It seems like it's a blatant attempt to stir up activity without any real facts, rumors, or even common knowledge about the chips used in the MBAs.
Certainly the people haven't read the story or they're somehow focusing on the 11" MBA. Sure, this would be fine for the 11" MBA in terms of CPU clock speed but even then it's a gigantic loss in the graphics capabilities. That leads to a problem with the author saying good enough for 13" MBP than good enough for MBA. However, the IGP clock speed used in this ULV chip will be nearly a 50% drop in graphics performance. That for me doesn't equate to if this then that...
I am disappointed with MR for even writing such a poor piece of garbage. Forget that I cannot stand the SB IGP... the assumptions made here are absurd! It
definitely doesn't warrant this sort of reply from the fans of the MBA. You and I
could assume things all day, but that isn't the story written.
adamfilip
Aug 27, 08:53 AM
You're screwing up, intel. We don't want 300 trillion transistors on a 1 nm die. We want longer battery life. Idiots.
I think you are missing the point
just cause a processor has 300 quadrillion transistors doesnt mean it will consume a huge amount of power.
if they released a memron that ran at 200mhz but lasted 24 hrs. would you buy it.. eventho it would be painfully slow?
its hard to balance Performance demands and power consumption
I think you are missing the point
just cause a processor has 300 quadrillion transistors doesnt mean it will consume a huge amount of power.
if they released a memron that ran at 200mhz but lasted 24 hrs. would you buy it.. eventho it would be painfully slow?
its hard to balance Performance demands and power consumption
Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 12:26 PM
CDMA is the only practical option for those of us who travel.
Travel within US perhaps. Still, you might be correct, even though I have seen posts that claims the opposite. Vz reluctance to give GSM a chance is big roadblock for you guys to get decent roaming. I use my european triband (900,1800,1900) when I fly over. I spend about 2 months per year in US. So far I havent had any problems getting connection. OK, you have some dropped calls when you drive in less populated areas. But that is reallly nothing to get upset about. Better to just redial the number than popping a vein in vain. :p
Still, life would be so much simpler for you if you at least tried to agree on one standard within your own country. Free enterprise has few, but really really annoying drawbacks.
Travel within US perhaps. Still, you might be correct, even though I have seen posts that claims the opposite. Vz reluctance to give GSM a chance is big roadblock for you guys to get decent roaming. I use my european triband (900,1800,1900) when I fly over. I spend about 2 months per year in US. So far I havent had any problems getting connection. OK, you have some dropped calls when you drive in less populated areas. But that is reallly nothing to get upset about. Better to just redial the number than popping a vein in vain. :p
Still, life would be so much simpler for you if you at least tried to agree on one standard within your own country. Free enterprise has few, but really really annoying drawbacks.
dernhelm
Aug 7, 03:56 PM
I'd also like to point out I've never actually gotten XP's system restore to work, I've tried about 10 times over the past 5 years. Maybe I'm the exception, but you really can't rely on it.
I've had it TRASH a machine at my home before. But I've used it successfully at work once or twice. For the disk space, though, I often turn it off. It is a complete pig, and if I'm tight at all, it's the first thing to go.
I've had it TRASH a machine at my home before. But I've used it successfully at work once or twice. For the disk space, though, I often turn it off. It is a complete pig, and if I'm tight at all, it's the first thing to go.
tripleanica
Nov 29, 01:29 PM
real music lovers buy their music in order the support great artists. i don't buy crap from the people at universal. nor do i expect to give them money when i buy an ipod.
Lord Blackadder
Mar 24, 01:44 PM
And the vast majority of WASPs are racists? Got it.
Where did I make that statement? :confused:
And some people say the cucumber tastes better pickled. But the last time I checked, this thread, and my comment, dealt with Obama and military action. But feel free to teach me more about birthers, Charlie Sheen, and String Theory if we are going off topic.
Are you saying that the conservatives' broader strategy for opposing liberals in congress is totally unrelated to their (disingenuous) opposition to intervention in Libya? That's quite rich.
Actually, I don't. I guess you can give me the the link - the one that says the vast number of conservatives are racist WASPS who who question Obama's religion and nationality and refuse to admit that this is the case. Thanks.
I don't see why I should try to find a link that supports your mischaracterization of my statements.
prom hairstyles long hair 2011
prom hairstyles for long hair
Where did I make that statement? :confused:
And some people say the cucumber tastes better pickled. But the last time I checked, this thread, and my comment, dealt with Obama and military action. But feel free to teach me more about birthers, Charlie Sheen, and String Theory if we are going off topic.
Are you saying that the conservatives' broader strategy for opposing liberals in congress is totally unrelated to their (disingenuous) opposition to intervention in Libya? That's quite rich.
Actually, I don't. I guess you can give me the the link - the one that says the vast number of conservatives are racist WASPS who who question Obama's religion and nationality and refuse to admit that this is the case. Thanks.
I don't see why I should try to find a link that supports your mischaracterization of my statements.
Reach9
Mar 22, 03:12 PM
Someone give Android's UI and Playbook's UI huge recognition so Apple will change it's old grid-like UI.
nerveosu
Aug 7, 04:23 PM
It says somewhere on the apple web site that macs with G3s will be supported with Leopard.. any word on specific computers that will be supported? I have a iMac DV 400 G3 that I am curious about.
fehhkk
Apr 27, 09:47 AM
If they're not tracking location, why would the new update purge the location database when it's turned off... :p
swingerofbirch
Aug 25, 03:12 PM
OK, as long as we are kvetching, I e-mailed dotmac support because some of my e-mails weren't going through..
I sent a test e-mail from dotmac webmail to my gmail account, which didn't go through.
They wrote back with instructions that said:
Thank you for contacting Apple.
Based on the information you provided, we understand that one of two emails you sent to your Gmail email address was not delivered, nor is email present in the Sent Messages folder.
For the purpose of our investigation, please reply and provide the following information:
- What is the subject of the email that failed to deliver?
- Was the email sent using .Mac Mail on the web, or an email client such as Mac OS X Mail?
- Did the email contain an attachment? If so, what is the size of the attachment?
subject of the email that was not delivered. Additionally, please provide a copy of the email header from the email that was successfully delivered.
To view a message's full header text using Gmail:
1. Log in to Gmail, <http://www.gmail.com/>.
2. Open a message sent from the JDate service.
3. Next to message delivery time, click "More options."
4. Click "Show original."
A new browser window will open displaying the message's full text, including the header. Please include a copy of the full text presented in the new browser window.
Sincerely,
Chris
Look at the part I bolded! I DO subscribe to e-mail from J Date that I receive at gmail but I NEVER mentioned ANYTHING about J date to dotmac...it is completely irreleveant to the e-mail I sent them.
I called custmer relations and they said they would get dotmac to contact me in 24 hours to explain the message but THEY HAVE NOT CALLED OR WRITTEN.
Dotmac has been a HEADACHE this last year...they have lost my e-mail and webpages, and now somehow seem to be prying into my personal life!
I sent a test e-mail from dotmac webmail to my gmail account, which didn't go through.
They wrote back with instructions that said:
Thank you for contacting Apple.
Based on the information you provided, we understand that one of two emails you sent to your Gmail email address was not delivered, nor is email present in the Sent Messages folder.
For the purpose of our investigation, please reply and provide the following information:
- What is the subject of the email that failed to deliver?
- Was the email sent using .Mac Mail on the web, or an email client such as Mac OS X Mail?
- Did the email contain an attachment? If so, what is the size of the attachment?
subject of the email that was not delivered. Additionally, please provide a copy of the email header from the email that was successfully delivered.
To view a message's full header text using Gmail:
1. Log in to Gmail, <http://www.gmail.com/>.
2. Open a message sent from the JDate service.
3. Next to message delivery time, click "More options."
4. Click "Show original."
A new browser window will open displaying the message's full text, including the header. Please include a copy of the full text presented in the new browser window.
Sincerely,
Chris
Look at the part I bolded! I DO subscribe to e-mail from J Date that I receive at gmail but I NEVER mentioned ANYTHING about J date to dotmac...it is completely irreleveant to the e-mail I sent them.
I called custmer relations and they said they would get dotmac to contact me in 24 hours to explain the message but THEY HAVE NOT CALLED OR WRITTEN.
Dotmac has been a HEADACHE this last year...they have lost my e-mail and webpages, and now somehow seem to be prying into my personal life!
Zargot
Jul 20, 01:07 PM
New Apple Mac Pro Dual Quad
Dual Intel Xeon 8400 Quardro processors at 3.4Ghz (2 x 4 core)
2Gb Buffered DDR2 RAM
750 Gb Sata2 Hard drive
Blue Ray Super drive 2x
Regular DVD rom in second bay
ATI X1900 video card 512mb PCI express x16
$3950
More like $13,950
:rolleyes:
Dual Intel Xeon 8400 Quardro processors at 3.4Ghz (2 x 4 core)
2Gb Buffered DDR2 RAM
750 Gb Sata2 Hard drive
Blue Ray Super drive 2x
Regular DVD rom in second bay
ATI X1900 video card 512mb PCI express x16
$3950
More like $13,950
:rolleyes:
aegisdesign
Sep 13, 12:05 PM
Also, the iMac is a 32-bit computer, and these are 64-bit chips, reducing any possiblity to zero.
Only the Yonah based Core Duo iMacs are 32bit (Well, and the G3/G4 too). G5 and the new iMac Core 2 Duo models on sale now are 64bit. Not that it matters per se.
Only the Yonah based Core Duo iMacs are 32bit (Well, and the G3/G4 too). G5 and the new iMac Core 2 Duo models on sale now are 64bit. Not that it matters per se.
leekohler
Mar 23, 03:45 PM
What are fivepoint and MattSepeta arguing about? Obama has not lied or invaded a country for no reason. This is a coordinated effort agreed upon with the UN. Huge difference. Just because people are liberal does not make them opposed to all military action.
I supported Bush's invasion of Afghanistan.
I supported Bush's invasion of Afghanistan.